General Discussion: General Discussion: Teaching / Public School Article
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Subvert

 Joined: Mar 31, 09
 Posts: 647 (57)
 Location: Hawaii  
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 09 4:49 PM

 

 

America needs good teachers. That statement is so obvious as to be silly. What's less obvious is that our current teacher certification laws actively discourage talented people from entering the profession.

To understand why the current process for training teachers is so broken, let's use a business example. Imagine two companies. Company A hires the best people it can. Those who are hired are paid and promoted based on performance. This is not easy, as it's often hard to determine who is really doing a good job. The compensation and promotion process is prone to politics and personal preferences.

Still, most people at Company A recognize that there is a connection between pay and productivity. The true superstars get recognized eventually. Those who come to work but never contribute are fired eventually. Everyone in between believes that there is at least a tenuous connection between how hard they work and how well they do at the firm. It's not a perfect meritocracy, but it's not the Soviet Union either.

That brings us to Company B. Company B also seeks to hire the best people it can, with several caveats. First, all prospective employees must undertake two years of full-time specialized training, at their own expense, just to be considered for a job. Study after study has shown that this training has zero connection to subsequent performance at the firm, but Company B sticks to this screening mechanism anyway.

Second, all employees eventually hired by Company B are paid based on their years of experience at the firm, which also been shown to have little or no connection with job performance. Finally, Company B promises that no one who has worked at the company for three years or more will ever be fired, even if their performance is mediocre or poor, year after year.

Company B is not a meritocracy. Employees who come to work and don't actually work may get fired, but they probably will only if they dent the boss's car in the parking lot. The superstars get nothing extra. They aren't paid more or promoted faster. In fact, if they are young, they are probably paid less than the burned-out worker several desks over, since pay is strictly tied to years on the job.

Discouraging the Best?

As you may have guessed, Company B is public education. Company A is the rest of the economy. That's not news. Much has been written about the broken incentives within education. The idea of some kind of merit pay has been kicking around for 20 years, if not longer. But this discussion almost always focuses on how compensation practices affect the incentives (and therefore the behavior) of existing teachers.

That makes sense -- but it also misses a crucial point. The most pernicious aspect of the public education pay structure is that it discourages motivated, productive, energetic people from entering the profession in the first place. 

Think about it. If you are a really talented person, where would you prefer to work: At Company A, where the success you anticipate will be rewarded?  Or Company B, where your promotions and pay raises are linked primarily to staying alive?

If you offered Alex Rodriguez a choice between playing in Major League Baseball, where guys like him can make $275 million, or playing in an alternative league, in which all the players get the same contract and can't be cut, where is he going to play?

More importantly, who is going to play in the alternative league? It's going to be players who are less talented and more concerned about being cut.

Economists refer to this phenomenon as adverse selection. Individuals use private information (their expected productivity in this case) to sort themselves into a job with a compensation structure that suits them best.  Public education is the equivalent of the alternative league.

We compound that problem with ridiculous teacher certification laws.  Despite a steady flow of evidence that our current teacher training requirements have essentially no correlation with performance in the classroom, most states continue to mandate that prospective teachers undertake expensive and time-consuming courses. That, too, is a huge deterrent for bright young people who might otherwise be attracted to teaching.

Make Training Make Sense

In fact, highly talented people have the most attractive career alternatives and therefore the highest "cost of time." They are the ones most likely to be deterred by time-consuming certification requirements that don't improve productivity.

The best way to improve teacher training would be to make it optional. If a certain kind of training proves effective, such as lots of hands-on experience in the classroom, then administrators will seek out candidates with that background. And once it's easier to get a job with that background (and/or a higher salary), then more prospective teachers will be willing to invest in such training. That's how the market normally induces training and education. 

Teacher training is the opposite. Prospective teachers jump through hoops because state law says they have to. If a state requires that all public school teachers take a course on the history of discrimination against left-handed children, then training programs will make a fat living offering courses on the history of discrimination against left-handed children. The state requires the course, education schools offer it, and future teachers must take it. There is nothing in that process to ensure that it actually produces better teachers. 

I recognize that a lot of talented people persevere through all of this and become extraordinary teachers. (My wife is in the process of a mid-career change to teach math.) I also know that many committed teachers complain bitterly about the hacks in the classroom down the hall who have been comfortably ensconced in the alternative league for decades even though they have no business teaching children.    

Good teachers matter. The data on that are clear. If we want more talented people in the classroom, a first step toward encouraging them would be to stop discouraging them.

Trilarian

 Joined: Jan 07, 09
 Posts: 313 (30)
 Location: Louisiana  
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 09 6:33 PM

You got it bud...

Most of the 'superstars' go to Universities were they get people who wish to learn, better salary, and can conduct research on the Universities budget.  You get a few good ones that decide to put up with it for the sake of the children, but those types are rare and usually burn out.

I did public school pre-k through 5th, then private 6th to 12th.  The difference was night and day, sadly.  I also remember my freshman year of college where I'd skip weeks of class and still do well (basically was a repeat of my senior HS year - being a college prep school).

If you can afford it, put your kids in private.
Subvert

 Joined: Mar 31, 09
 Posts: 647 (57)
 Location: Hawaii  
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 09 7:12 PM

My wife taught for almost 10 years at one of the top 5 universities in the country (UPenn) but is not qualified to teach public school without the time consuming and costly certification.  So when she decided we should move to Hawai'i she just found a private school to teach at instead and loves it.  Every person I've met who has taught public school found the experience to be miserable, more or less.

RockDoctor

 Joined: May 10, 09
 Posts: 62 (11)
 Location: Texas  
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 09 3:43 PM

There's no excuse for hiring incompetent teachers since they have the minds of our kids and the responsibility to mold into productive citizens and individuals.

All public school teachers in Texas must have a Bachelor's Degree and many have six or seven years in their education and training. When my oldest son graduated in 2001, (he's not a teacher, by the way) the conservative estimate of the cost of his education was about $80,000, at a public university. The average salary of a teacher in Texas is $38,800. If our family was only a one-salary income, he would still be paying off loans 8-10 years later. We dug into savings so that he would graduate without debt.

 Texas is 37th among the 50 states in salary. A lot of teachers left the profession because they couldn't make a living for their family, unless the wife was working also. Most teachers, regardless of the number of degrees will ever be wealthy, unless they have a business or investment on the side. Even then it is only a supplement. So, teachers don't go into the profession for money. So, what is their motivation? Why does an individual go into the military? Why did those on this board decide to put yourself in that position? I'm not a betting man, but I suspect you joined the military for many of the same reasons  teachers teach.

Teaching in some school districts is like entering a battle zone, except the enemy isn't shooting at you all the time, or necessarily trying to kill you.

Education has changed considerably since most of us went to public school. Teachers had the support of the parents, kids homes had two parents, and mom was at home when kids got home from school. Many parents have abdicated their responsibilities, trying to force the public schools to assume in loco parentis. My wife and I both worked when the kids were young, but with great effort we stayed involved with their school and teachers. It's not unusual for parents to visit their child's teacher, not to coordinate and assist the teacher to provide the best learning for their child, but to defend their millennial, sweet, protected offspring as a "helicopter", hovering, parent often blaming the teacher and educational system, that their child is an unmotivated, lazy, individual who is popping mom or dads pills from the medicine cabinet.

It's obvious to anyone that society is in a world of hurt and has been for more than a couple of decades. Political Correctness, lack of support of families, low pay, poor leadership in schools, dumb ass "Zero Tolerence", replacing common sense put us in the mire we are now in.

If businessmen, atletes, members of all the crafts, military men and women were to spend a few days volunteering each school year in the classroom, seeing what is really going on "in country", they would have an entirely different perspective. When someone, unthinking, critizes the military or individuals who have chosen that vocation or career, I get just as pissed off in hearing  or reading the simplistic criticisms of teachers.

A short story: one of the fellows I use to shoot competatively with was a Lt. at Carswell AFB and in security. While chatting over a beer after a match, a civilian ask him if when guarding the B52 loaded with Nukes, would he shoot someone violating a secure area. His answer: "In a heartbeat". The questioner was horrified and lacking in understanding of basic military duty and committment. In some sense, lack of understanding of a teacher's duty and committment is just as often lacking.

{Rant Over}
xamraci

 Joined: Mar 10, 09
 Posts: 807 (42)
 Location: Alabama  
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 09 6:56 PM

Meh...I went to Public School and I attend a Public University.

I find that most private schools and high-end universities are full of assholes who want to talk about all the great shit they did/do. I go to a University where I am instructed by a man who sits on the NLRB, a man who was the financial officer for General Mills, a man who makes 300,000 twice a year for consulting work in regards to compensation and employee dismissals...ect...

I hold strong to the idea that once size becomes an issue and the requirements of teachers, professors, and instructors are laid out by Articles, Research, and personal accomplishments..we have failed our students.
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