I broke down and shot the new rifle today.  I've been waiting to get the clearance to use the farm, but there has been a lot of horse activity surrounding fox hunting practice, so I've been anxiously waiting to stretch it's legs.  My hunting buddy called and said to meet him up in Northern VA for some gunnery.  I took the HK USP Compact 45, Remington 48 Sportsman 20 gauge, S&W M&P AR15, and AIREM700 5R.  I wanted to break in the barrel on the 700 anyway, so I figured I'd just start the process at the indoor range, even it was only 75 yards.  He brought a XDM 40, Kahr 40, Ruger 10/22, Savage 30-06, Winchester 12 gauge, and a couple of other nice pieces.

I started the break-in with 1 round followed by a jag with #9 and then a mop.  I did this for 10 rounds.  Then I shot a few 3 round groups with cleanings in between.  I then shot the 3 5-round groups pictured in succession with no cleaning.  All shot were fired at 75 yards standing slouched and off a bipod.  No imobile bench rest for this stick today!  I'm very happy with the results, as firing prone or off a sand bag should improve accuracy somewhat.  I'm going to try and get outdoors with it later this week and zero the scope for 100 yards.

 (3/4" cold bore first shot)

 (1/2")

 (1/2")

I'm guessing that it will hold 1/2MOA at 100 yds when fired from a better shooting position and with some concentration instead of the pretzel I was standing in and gawking eyes and talking behind my head.  The scope was just rough zero'd for 100 using some tool at the shop.  The elevation will probably need some adjustment when I get it outside.

I fired the AR for the first time with the new 3.5 lb JP Enterprises trigger job.  Fantastic!  That's all I have to say about that.  No creep (just a gnat's ass).  Easier to shoot accurate now.  I rezero'd the red dot for 25 yards for better CQB performance.

Had fun shooting all the other guns, but the XDM was my favorite (first time I'd ever touched one).  Here is the 4" target results at 10 yards.

All in all, a great day.  I can't wait to get the 700 outside looking at some deer.

Mem,

That's really not bad for your conditions:  brand new out of the box rifle, first time shooting it (I know you were a little apprehensive and anxious), standing, distracted, scope not fully tweaked in and "flow" being broken by cleaning between shots, etc.  Trust me, you'll be shooting one ragged hole (pancake stack) groups in no time.  That rifle will always be able to outshoot the guy sitting behind it!  Give yourself a good hundred rounds through it to get the barrel seasoned and for you to get the feel of it.  After that, if you aren't shooting 5 shots in a dime, I'd be glad to give you every nickel you have in that rifle back, cause I can tell you, it will be operator error, not the rifle !

So officially, now you and xamraci have the "Recoil -no-hassle-no-fuss-money-back-guarantee"!

"Once I send the 92FS to Beretta to push out a finish imperfection on the slide and re-coat the pistol...we can maybe work something out...haha."

What?  Are you saying you're gonna part with this Beretta?

I should probably explain my shooting position.

This range does not allow lying on the ground because the angle from the bore to the hanging target would not allow the bullet to hit their backstop properly.  So, you have to fire from a flimsy pistol style shelf.  The problem with this shelf for rifle is that it is too high to shoot from a seated position, and too low to shoot from a natural standing position and use it as a rest.  I dropped the legs on the bipod and had to slouch forward with my right leg way back to get in position for the correct eye relief on the scope.  There was no way to 'properly' support the shoulder stock, and the shelf was flexing under the weight of the rifle under the bipod.  Thinking about it now, I should have fired from a complete standing position against the barrier on the left side of the lane using my left hand to brace and support the rifle.

Anyway, the point I'm making is this...  Even from a completely FUBAR shooting position, this rifle pulled off really nice 5 round groupings.  If I had limited the groups to only 3 rounds each, then in two cases, the groupings would have been even tighter (3/8 or less).  I'm looking forward to shooting off a sandbag and just prone in general.  This rifle is going to be a winner.

Not trying to knock this range.  I was really set up for AR style rifles to be shot from an off hand standing position.

I'm glad you were finally able to shoot her, Mem. As far as I'm concerned, any round fired at a range is better than a day at the office. Your groups look nice.

Isn't that JP trigger the fricking bomb? I have the same trigger in mine.

The XDM, oh how I love the XD40 - There is no point in getting the M here in California (in my opinion) because you can't get the hi caps for it anyway unless you're LE.

Mem,

Your 100 yard grouping has improved significantly and it's only your second time out with the rifle!  Awesome group.  The 200 yard shots, while lethal, will come around with more practice.  Overall awesome day!

You need a bipod.  I always shoot from a bipod and it's where I get my best groups.  I recommend the Harris 6-9" Benchrest Model.  Although made for bench shooting, it works great for uneven surface shooting, like your prone field shooting.  Get the one that swivels.  It'll cost you 100.00 bucks, but is well worth it and besides, it's a Harris!

Also, and this is a lesson learned from my friend and long distance shooting mentor Ken:  Make a 1" black dot on your paper to shoot at.  Just a simple dot.  We usually trace a quarter with a sharpie marker, then color it in.  Remember...aim small, hit small.  It works!  The smaller your focal point, the smaller your groups can be.

As for more magnification on your scope, hogwash.  Sure, who doesn't like a scope that will make a dime look like a beach ball at 500 yards, but they have their own problems, which for length of thread, I won't get into.  That scope will exceed every lethal distance of the .308's max. eff. range...and do it with ease!  Remember, aim small, shoot small and for years, Marine snipers used fixed 10x scopes with deadly precision!

Can't wait for your next report!!! And oh man how I would have loved to be there with you.  That's a nice flat field!!!

ps.

Adjust your windage 1" to the left and you'll be bullseye pancake stacks!

Nice pic.

Holy smokes, that's a pretty big difference in moa from mine to yours.  

The temp difference between mine and your 200 yard shot was only 6 degrees (55 for me if I recall correctly).  Still...that doesn't justify the difference.

Oh man, I just went back and re-read your post.  You were shooting 175 gr. Federal SMK HPBT match ammo.  Those dopes I gave you are for 180gr Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped ammo for hunting!  My bad bro, I thought I had told you that in my email message I sent to your phone.  

We'll talk later about this offline and get to the bottom of it. 

Recoil

Mem, according to the Federal Ballistics Table, for the 180gr Trophy Bonded Tipped ammo, 24" bore, 1.8" scope height, 61 deg day, +300 ft alt., zero'd at 100 yards, this round will drop 4 inches.  That's 2 MOA (with 100 yd zero).  It corresponds with what I have shot and made pancake stacks with.  However, read on...

I laugh at myself sometimes Mem. I failed to tell you an important step in calculating dopes and for that I apologize.  I shouldn't have sent you the dopes I sent without explaining that they were in "recoilese" and I understand them.  "Clicks" and "MOA" are one in the same to me in "recoilese", but to someone who doesn't understand my bullshit way of recording dopes and using them for my next shot, at a different range, they're confusing.  Allow me to explain, in the best way I know how, so bear with me.  Please respond and ask for clarification if need be, but you're a smart guy and what I say will more than likely make sense.   

Ok, since our rings, bases and scope and rifle actions (barrel/action etc.) are identical, the measurements will be the same for both of us.  Also, ballistics should be the same, within reason...and when I say within reason, I mean that a number I give you shouldn't be off any more than 1 click, or .25" or 1/4 MOA, which are all the same in the shooting world.

That being said, our scope height (measured from center of bore to center of objective lens) is 1.8" and that's not using a tape measure, but instead, a caliper.  In any ballistics calculator you use, plug that number into it and get rid of the default 1.5" (which is usually what's there).  It will make a difference when you start airing the rifle out at longer ranges.  So now we've established scope height for you, always remember that number!

Ok, to the "recoilese" I mentioned earlier.  When I gave you my dopes, which are shot tested, I gave you these dopes:

100 yards = Zero

150 yards = 1 Click

200 yards = 2 Clicks

250 yards = 3.2 Clicks

300 yards = 4 Clicks

350 yards = 6.2 Clicks

400 yards = 8 Clicks

450 yards = 9.3 Clicks

500 yards = 12 Clicks

Ok, when I say "recoilese" I mean this and I'll give you an example:  Let's look at 250 yard dope above.  I said the dope is 3.2 clicks and that is correct, but....  I understand it, but then again, I wrote it.  I should have changed it to read 3.5 MOA.  That means that the 180gr TBTipped projectile will drop 8.5" at 250 yards.  If you use what I gave you, without the proper explanation, you probably wouldn't dial in the right dope.  I'm probably confusing the hell out of you and that's not my intent.  3.2 clicks to me means 2 clicks past 3 inches or 2 clicks past 3 MOA.  I don't deal in inches, too much math involved when my heart is already beating out of my chest because mr. bigbuck is in the field! That's why you have a dopecard with you, that way you don't ever have to do math.  So, to make things understandable for you, this is how the dopes I sent you should have read:

100 yards = Zero

150 yards = 1 MOA

200 yards = 2 MOA

250 yards = 3.5 MOA

300 yards = 4 MOA

350 yards = 6.5 MOA

400 yards = 8 MOA

450 yards = 9.75 MOA

500 yards = 12 MOA

Ok, so another thing I want to expand on is the fact that I don't like doing math.  I despise math, but can do it if pressed, but in college I had to data dump my childhood years from memory to be able to get through all the math I had to take.  SUCKED.  So, it taught me to simplify, thus "clicks" vice MOA on my dope card.  Let me explain something that you may or may not know and I'll use another example from the dopes I sent you. 

Let's look at the 500 yard dope of 12 MOA.  So, according to the logic of the dope card, if you want to hit a target at 500 yards you simply twist in 12 MOA on your Mk4.  Essentially, that's 12".  However, you have to multiply it by 5 (for 500 yards) to get what you're actually programming in to account for the drop....60" or 5 feet!  Just remember that since you are sighted in at 100 yards, any MOA input you put into the scope via the dial will double at 200 and each 100 yard increment after that!  A lot of people don't realize this fact.  I'm not trying to insult your intellect, I'm just putting it all out there so you or anyone else who reads this will realize it and save themselves a lot of $ on ammo one day. 

I hope this clarified things somewhat.  Shooting isn't an exact science, especially longer distance shooting.  A lot of variables come into play...and we won't even talk about windage...jeesh it can be a nightmare to judge wind and make the proper adjustments.  One shot will hit, the next will miss...all because of a slight gust that happend 400 yards from you!  But, you already know this.

This thread's a little longer than what I planned and I stilll didn't tell you everything I wanted to, but hopefully it clarified the dopes I sent.  They are spot on.  I've shot them many times and my buddy, who also has a 5R used when his rifle was brand new.  Our differences were negligible and no major adjustments were necessary. 

Recoil 

To really know your rounds, you need to chrono them. I've had a few rounds come in 200 - 300 fps under what the manufacture claimed. That includes Hornady and Black Hills.

.

Hey guys I agree!  You'll never hear me say that store-bought, manufactured ammo is better than a homemade handload from a meticulous reloader!!!  But, since I don't own a reload setup and only have access to a limited amount of my buddies reloads when I help him out...I have to mainly go with store bought.  : - (

The 180gr Trophy Bonded Tipped Ammo you're using is supposed to average out at 2620 fps muzzle velocity.  That's according to their Ballistic Table on their webpage.  My friend (who reloads) and I have found that this rifle loves 2600 fps velocity and does the best there. 

Also Mem, you had mentioned or asked before about weight of this this rifle.  I weighed my 5R today with the following result.  I used a "Berkley" digital fish weighing scale (has the cool hook on the end to attach it to stuff).  It's supposedly good to +/- 1/4 ounce on anything under 50 lbs!  They use it in fishing tournaments where big money is involved, so it must be good and it's relatively cheap at around 20-25 bucks. 

Here's a link to it and it can be bought at Wallyworld (Where I got mine): 

My 5R was configured as such for the weighing:

H&S Precision PST 25 Tactical with adjustable cheepkpiece and length of pull

Leupold Mk4 LR/T M1 with flip-type dust covers by Butler Creek.

Harris Bipod BRMS model

BlackHawk Cheekrest with pouch

Uncle Mike's Sling

Badger Ordnance Bolt knob

5 rounds of Federal 180gr Trophy Bonded Tipped ammo in the pouch

Weight:  13lbs, 12 ounces.

Just fyi for you Mem.  Let me know what you get on yours.  I'm really interested in knowing your weight with that pimp-azz stock you have.

With my equipment and handloads, I get very little variation on feet per second. I can get 8 out of 10 rounds to travel at exactly the same speed while having only 1 - 2 fps diffence in the other 2 rounds.

IP

FedEx me over some of that shit!  I need 60 rounds of 175gr Sierra Match King BTHP bullets in a decent casing.  Speed I need is 2600fps or as close to that as you can chrono. 

I'll tell you what.  I'll make you a deal.  Send me 10 to try out and if they are good to go, I'll do some "gift exchanges" with you for the trade...you know what I'm talking about!!!

We can talk more about this offline.

PM sent Recoil